5 Considerations When Choosing A Spiritual Director

EPISODE 123 | 5 CONSIDERATIONS WHEN CHOOSING A SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR

[00:00:00] Being aware of what is it that you're looking for right now in this season of a journey is important because you're going to bring that in when you're going to try out a spiritual director and you're going to need to be able to say, this is what you're looking for. And that helps them discern as well, whether they are the right fit for you. 

[00:00:14] INTRODUCTION
Welcome to Becoming Me, your podcast companion and coach in your journey to a more integrated and authentic self. I am your host, Ann Yeong, and I'm here to help you grow in self-discovery and wholeness. If you long to live a more authentic and integrated life and would like to hear honest insights about the rewards and challenges of this journey, then take a deep breath, relax, and listen on to Becoming Me. 

[00:00:51] THE IMPORTANC EOF CHOOSING THE RIGHT SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR
Hello again, good morning So, in my last Live, I spoke about three signs that maybe it is time for you to change your spiritual director or maybe it's time to change your therapist. And I had received, I received a question from someone and the question was, how do we discern and go about choosing a spiritual director or a therapist, right? So, how, how would I know how to discern and choose a spiritual director and therapist? And that really is such an important question, isn't it?

[00:01:27] I think all of us, at some point, when we decide that we really wish to get more help in our interior journey, it may occur to us or someone may tell us that it's time for you to look for a spiritual director or it's time for you maybe to consider getting a counsellor or a therapist.

[00:01:45] And then the question is like, how do I go about doing that? And it's always a privilege for me to have these conversations with people that I do journey with one-on-one. And today, I'm going to try and go a little bit more in depth here, right? So, I'm going to share what I have gleaned in my own experience and what I have learned are important considerations to kind of like ponder through, pray through when we're looking for a spiritual director or when we're looking for a new therapist.

[00:02:19] So, because this is such a big topic, one, I'm not going to be able to cover this comprehensively, right? But even so, I am splitting into two Lives to address this question specifically to spiritual direction.

[00:02:31] So, that's what I'm doing in this Live. I will be addressing like five considerations when we go about choosing a spiritual director or a new spiritual director and in my next Live, I will be doing the same thing responding to the same question with regards to a counsellor or therapist. They're slightly different considerations even though I guess there are also quite a few similarities. 

[00:02:55] Okay, so, before I go on, I just want to say there are three important caveats to bear in mind, okay. Even as we go about talking about how do we discern and choose a spiritual director, one, the first caveat is, I think it's quite obvious. There is no perfect spiritual director. Spiritual directors are human. They are flawed human beings. And so, don't put off getting a spiritual director because you're waiting to find like the perfect one. There is no perfect spiritual director. 

[00:03:27] Two, the second caveat is do remember that because our interior journey is long and there'll be very different parts of the journey that will require different kinds of help, do expect that you will need to change spiritual directors at some point in your journey and definitely more than once if you continue to progress and grow.

[00:03:47] And three, the third caveat is you can trust God to provide what you need when you need it in the journey. Okay. So, in a sense, we do want to be intentional about this. We want to put care and thought into selecting a spiritual director for ourselves because the most important thing for a disciple of Christ is to deepen our relationship with the Lord, is to deepen this intimacy with God. And that dimension of growing an interior journey is something that we would definitely need good help with okay, especially the kind of one-on-one help that spiritual direction affords us.

[00:04:29] But having said that, this journey, our whole lives in this journey is in God's hands. So, we can also hold on to this this search in a sense lightly It's important, but we hold on to it lightly and we trust that the Lord will provide. Okay, so that's kind of like the backdrop of this process of discerning and choosing a spiritual director. All right. So, this is the topic today, right? 

[00:04:53] FIVE KEY CONSIDERATIOS FOR SELECTING A SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR
Five considerations when choosing a spiritual director. And before I go into the five considerations, I just want to say, when I reached the point in my own journey and someone, it was a priest, that that played a pivotal role in my conversion experience. And he told me I should get a spiritual director. In fact, he said I needed to get a spiritual director because I was experiencing very profound spiritual experiences and it's a little out of the norm and he said it's important for me to get guidance, right?

[00:05:22] And then the same time he couldn't he didn't have capacity to take on another directee. So, he just kept telling me and go find a spiritual director, but he never told me or taught me how do I go about choosing a spiritual director. And because this was a very busy person and he wasn't my SD or anything, I just I didn't know whether I could ask him.

[00:05:46] So, what I'm going to share today is what I have learned and experienced and gleaned over the many years now of different spiritual directors, of seeing how God works in matching me with spiritual directors. And hopefully this will help someone, this will help you if you are at that point that I was before, whether it's choosing your first spiritual director, or you realize that it's time for you to change spiritual directors and you don't know how now to go and choose the next one.

[00:06:18] Okay, so, my first point, the first consideration when we are selecting a spiritual director, I would say it's kind of like about what that person brings. And I just want to say that from what I have learned and experienced, what we hope for or what is important to consider would be the spiritual and emotional maturity of that person, of the spiritual director, as well as their knowledge and their skill, right? So, spiritual, emotional maturity, knowledge, and skill. 

[00:06:55] So, a little bit on why this is important, I think, although it may be quite obvious, you want someone who not only has knowledge about the faith tradition that you are in. I mean, that would be important because you want to grow closer to God, often and usually within the faith tradition that you grew up in or that you are currently in, right?

[00:07:18] So, my experiences come from the Catholic tradition, the Catholic Christian tradition. So, clearly, I always want someone who is steeped in this tradition and understands this context and can lead me deeper into relationship with God, with that. So, knowledge is important, but knowledge is far from being the only important thing because there can be a lot of people who have knowledge, strong, deep knowledge about the theology of my faith but who may not have the spiritual maturity themselves.

[00:07:46] So, when we go to spiritual direction, we are looking to deepen our intimacy with the Lord, which also means we are looking to grow in spiritual maturity. Right? Unfortunately, sometimes we may find that there are some spiritual directors that have the certification, like they've gone for training, right? Maybe certification, or maybe even a diploma, et cetera, in terms of picking up the training and the skills for spiritual direction.

[00:08:13] But they may not really have a very deep spiritual maturity for themselves yet. Now this is something that I admit it may not be that easy for you to pick up on, especially if you are still early on in the journey. But as you deepen your journey, you will become more aware and more sensitive to the presence or the absence of spiritual maturity, okay.

[00:08:37] But apart from spiritual maturity, we also would want someone who has emotional maturity at least, okay. So, not emotional maturity that require that in the same way that. Let's say we're looking for in an intimate personal relationship, okay, but someone in this role, the spiritual director's role, if they are not emotionally mature, they can also project their issues onto us, or they may try, or they may get possessive over our own interior journeys, right?

[00:09:08] So, we hope to have someone who, other than spiritual maturity, also has that emotional maturity to be able to have a good, warm, but also a kind of detached relationship with us where they understand that in reality, the real spiritual director in any relationship or spiritual direction, the real spiritual director is the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that directs us and the human spiritual directors place or their role is really to facilitate our encounter with the Lord, to guide us, maybe apprentice us and teach us depending on where we are, how to become. more able to recognize how the Lord is working in our lives, all right?

[00:09:55] So, there is a term that I really love used by Father Thomas Green, he's a Jesuit priest who's passed on already, a very experienced spiritual director and teacher of spiritual directors himself. And he wrote a book called The Friend of the Bridegroom. Okay. I will be referring to this book a little later at the end of this Live because I'm going to share with you a few resources that has been very helpful for me in learning about how to look for the right spiritual director for myself.

[00:10:24] But he called the title of the book, The Friend of the Bridegroom, and it's about spiritual direction because that was the term that John the Baptist used to refer to himself vis a vis Jesus Christ. So, if you recall in the Gospels when John the Baptist's disciples came to him and said, look, your own followers are now all following this person, just Jesus of Nazareth, right? They're leaving you and they're following Jesus of Nazareth. And John the Baptist actually said he rejoices because he says, I am the friend of the bridegroom. Basically saying, you know, Jesus is the bridegroom and the bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom is just there to, in a sense, make that connection, make that match.

[00:11:06] And when the bridegroom is here, it is right that the bride goes to him. So, all of us, we are the bride, right? And Christ God is the bridegroom. And our spiritual director, the human spiritual director, plays that role of the friend of the bridegroom. And John the Baptist also said, you know, He must increase, Christ must increase, and I decrease.

[00:11:29] So, a good spiritual director in that sense, would be able to embody that. Someone who recognizes the importance of their role in helping to make that match with the Lord, and bringing the bride, us, right, our souls, to the bridegroom so that we can get better acquainted with Him. And so that we can get learn to hear Him and listen to Him and recognize His voice in our own lives. And when that happens, they decrease, right, the spiritual director decreases.

[00:11:59] So, I in my experience, I found like the very effective directors are the ones that know when to ask questions, when to share resources, but also when to keep silent and when to not give the help that even I, the directee, might be seeking because they can discern that this is what the Lord is inviting me to, you know, like as the directee, to maybe wrestle with for a while.

[00:12:24] So, they withhold, they're not eager to share their knowledge. They're not eager to share their experience. They know how to listen to the Lord first and then in a sense, respond to that. So, spiritual direction, other than ongoing spiritual direction, like usually maybe, you know, outside of a retreat context, we also experience spiritual direction in individual retreats and individual silent retreats, right? Especially let's say Ignatian silent retreats.

[00:12:54] And I just want to share briefly that my best experience of my most, most memorable and I would say even the best experience of individually directed Ignatian silent retreat, which spanned about, I think, nine days, right? Nine days, and every day I had to meet my Jesuit spiritual director and share what had come up in prayer, out of, like, all those sessions.

[00:13:16] I remember there were two or three, I think, three days when I came into the session and I shared what has been coming up, you know, in the day. So, the full day that I had before I met him, I mean, after I've met him, the last day - so, 24 hours since I met him the last time - what has emerged in the silence, in my prayer, in my journaling, in how the Lord spoke to me through nature, et cetera.

[00:13:41] Three times he listened. And then when I was done, he just said, okay, I'm going to offer you a verse or a short passage to consider, later you can look at it, but only pray if it helps you. Beyond that, there is nothing I want to add or say because clearly, clearly the Lord is really communicating with you, like he's really conversing, and I'm not going to interrupt that.

[00:14:09] And you know, I just thought that was amazing because it really did help. In that time, I was so immersed in, you know, in this conversation with the Lord. I really, really appreciated that the director knew to just let it continue, right? And I appreciated the wisdom and the discernment and the detachment that he would have had to exercise as well. He wasn't eager to try. He wasn't trying to follow a particular agenda. He wasn't trying to impress me with his knowledge, you know, etc, etc. So, spiritual emotional maturity knowledge and skill, okay, in general. Well, that's the first thing to kind of like look out for. 

[00:14:56] UNDERSTANDING YOUR NEEDS AND WHERE YOU ARE ON YOUR JOURNEY
The second consideration, is for you to ask yourself - this is important - what are you looking for in this current season of your journey? Okay, because what we need and what we're looking for can really change at different points of our journey and that's an important thing to ask for because it's going to affect or it's going to impact the kind of spiritual director that you need at this point in life, right, at this point of your journey. 

[00:15:27] So, for example, are you at that point or season in your life where you really just need first to have someone who will compassionately listen to you with all your doubts and all your questions to listen compassionately without judgement. Many people, especially if this is the first time you are seeking a spiritual director and you're not used to this journey yet, our lives are so devoid of people's attuned presence, to listen to us, to really hear us, and just be with us, that this is the first need.

[00:16:08] I'll say it's actually a very basic need that we need to have met first, even in the context of a spiritual direction journey. Okay, so, for many people, what I've observed, and in my own experience as well, the earliest spiritual directors that you have, like maybe the first spiritual director especially, needs to be someone who will let you experience saying whatever you need to say.

[00:16:30] Maybe not without interrupting too much, being very attuned to you, letting their presence be a space in which you can learn to hear yourself and experience God being with you, experience God just loving you. Okay, so, in this context, for example, you will need a spiritual director that is a really good listener.

[00:16:53] I mean, in general, they all need to be good listeners, but you know, there are different spiritual directors also made of different temperaments, different personalities, and different strengths, okay? Right now, in this season, if you are looking for someone who can compassionately listen to you, and you really just have a lot that you need to let out, you're looking for someone who's really good at holding space, okay?

[00:17:15] And if that's where you are, that's the kind of season that you're in, or that stage of the journey that you are in, you may find that just having someone be with you and hold you and just at the end of the session, maybe giving you one or two things to pray, to think about or to try will already help you unlock your inner journey and make you help you make progress.

[00:17:39] Okay, but at some point, maybe what you're looking for is not just someone who can attune to you and let you experience hearing yourself, you may need someone who can help you deepen your prayer life, okay. So, when the basic need has been met and you begin to learn and experience how to be with yourself and how to hear yourself and how to hear God in your solitude, for example. You want to learn to continue. You want to learn how to deepen that by deepening your prayer life, right?

[00:18:13] So, maybe that's something that you want to consider, is it is what you're looking for right now. I want to learn to pray. I would like to learn to pray. And sometimes these two go together, right? I want to be able to learn to pray so that I know how to experience being with God or hearing God in my life, right? So, whether it's needing someone to listen to you more compassionately and really hold space. Or you're looking to deepen your prayer life, or are you seeking to learn how to discern, like really the discernment of spirits as something very specific and it's not something that you pick up just because you go for a retreat, then maybe you want to look for someone who can help you, apprentice you in that, right?

[00:18:50] Being aware of what is it that you're looking for right now in this stage or not stage, but the season of a journey is important because you're going to bring that in when you're going to try out a spiritual director and you're going to need to be able to say, this is what you're looking for. And that helps them discern as well, whether they are the right fit for you. Okay, so, the second consideration is what are you looking for in this season of your interior journey., 

[00:19:14] So, the third consideration is what stage of the interior journey are you in? Okay, I don't have a template right now in my mind when I'm talking about this. So, let's just talk about the stages of the interior journey a bit more in general, because there are different paradigms and the point of any model and any paradigm. Is not that it's meant to be like a fixed, definitive thing that tells us where we are in our journey, but to give us a sense that there is movement and that different phases of this journey, different stages of this journey, what we need will be different, right.

[00:19:50] And that translates to the kind of spiritual director that will be a good fit for us. So, for example, if you are at the beginning of your spiritual journey, in the sense of like, this is the first time you're seeking spiritual direction, or you really want to be able to develop a deeper and more stable prayer life. Now, as with all beginnings, whether it is in sports, in music, in art, even in, in school, I guess, in terms of like learning, reading and writing, for example, at the beginning, we need structure. We need more consistency. We need sometimes a little bit, a little bit more hand holding, right?

[00:20:37] So, when we are at the beginning, it's good to have a spiritual director that may be a little bit more prescriptive, okay? So, by prescriptive, I mean, you know, they will kind of tell us, okay, try this, you know? Okay, do this, and then come back the next time and tell me how it goes, right? There's a bit more structure. That's something to consider when you're at the beginning. I personally found that the Ignatian tradition, right, it's very helpful for beginners. 

[00:21:08] Again, for beginners, I'm not talking about people who are still not sure whether they want to draw closer to God. I'm talking about the beginning where you know you want to draw closer to the Lord. You want to grow in intimacy. Now you want to learn how, okay. And you are ready and willing to put in the effort. You're ready and willing to invest your energy, your time, and even your money into this process. Then that's when having that kind of structure presented to you, guided for you, will be very helpful, okay?

[00:21:37] So, it's like spiritual habits, developing spiritual habits, basic foundations, looking for someone that has that, is equipped with that, and can guide you through that. If that's what you're looking for, and what you have is a spiritual director who is just really good at listening to you, and maybe that's not what you need anymore, you need someone that can kind of like, have more resources, and help you pick up those resources, that may be an indication that it's time to move on to a different director, okay?

[00:22:04] Unless you can find that somewhere else, like maybe in a course. Yeah, but it has to be more extended than a retreat, okay? So, if, on the other hand, you're past the beginnings that I just described, you may find that you're already deepening and it's not so much for lack of methods of prayer, what had helped you before, what had helped you to really grow before seems to not really help you anymore. Or maybe one indication could be that you're being drawn to more stillness and silence like even in terms of your prayer time with the Lord, you don't really want to do Lectio or you just get stuck. Lectio Divina, okay it's one of the methods of prayer.

[00:22:49] Let's say you just you just read the scriptures or something and then there's a line and you just feel like you just want to dwell on that line and you don't even feel like you want to continue with the other steps of the Lectio anymore. When this is unfamiliar to you, sometimes we may get worried. Oh, am I being lazy? Am I not being disciplined? Am I backsliding? But this can be an indication that the Lord is moving us into the next step of the relationship with Him because prayer also develops in stages and it doesn't mean that once you move on from the first stage of prayer you never go back to it. 

[00:23:25] But it's like the deeper stages of prayer and the spirit, The Holy Spirit sometimes is inviting us to enter a different experience of prayer, and we need to have the freedom to be able to move into that and not get too attached to the methodology of prayer, right? So, what I just described is an indication of maybe a change in the stages of our own interior journey. And if your spiritual director is not able to pick that up, and I mean, it depends, okay?

[00:23:53] So, like I said, there are different kinds of spiritual directors, their expertise or their experience may, they really vary. Their own in touchness, I suppose, like, you know, their discernment also can vary. If they're able to guide you through these changes, then well and good, you're still okay, on good ground with the spiritual director. But if you find that they keep bringing you back to the same methods that they had taught you or they are not able to pick up even when you're sharing your experiences that this is a different space, different, you know, different time.

[00:24:24] That's also an indication that maybe it's time to change your spiritual director. Okay, because depending on the stage of the journey you're in, the kind of help you need will be very different. Sometimes what I've seen happen and observed in other people is they start feeling like, I need someone who is not so gentle with me.

[00:24:44] Okay, so, that may sound a little - it's not meant to be scary. Okay, so, this means that when we feel I'm in a good space or I'm actually quite secure right now at this place, where I am at this stage in my relationship with God. I want to go deeper. And I want somebody to tell me like it is. You know, it's like, I just want to be able to tell, someone to just tell me like it is. I need somebody more incisive with insight, with some wisdom. That's a very different kind of spiritual direction compared to the one that I described earlier where we just need somebody who is really good at holding space for us and really attuned.

[00:25:23] At a certain stage in our journey, we need someone, you know, who maybe can say, let's say, is a bit more of a coach and can tell us what is it that we need to continue to grow. So, if you find that you're moving in circles, sometimes that's an indication that you need to change, right? So, the stage that you are in will make a difference.

[00:25:40] Now, at the end of the Live, at the end of this sharing, I will share with you some titles of books that actually are very helpful for you to have a sense or identify what stage of prayer you're in or maybe what stage of the spiritual journey you are in. Because I know just hearing me talk about this, you may be still wondering, I don't know what stage I am in, right?

[00:25:59] So, that's what we need resources for. I will share some titles at the end of this Live. Okay, so, that's the third point. So, what stage of the journey are you in, right? And that stage will... impact the kind of direction that you need.

[00:26:20] PRACTICAL ASPECTS: BUDGET AND TYPES OF SPIRITUAL DIRECTORS
Okay, so the fourth consideration. Oh, this is a very practical one. What's your budget? And knowing that there are different, in a sense, types of spiritual director. Okay, so, what I mean by types is, I'm not talking about areas of expertise or anything specifically but in my tradition, okay, Catholic tradition or Christian tradition, the first possibility is that you can find a spiritual director who is a member of a religious congregation, right. So, they are like a religious brother or sister or a priest in a religious tradition, in a religious congregation, or maybe a member of the clergy, a priest.

[00:27:02] And in my tradition, at least, a lot of times if it's a religious or a priest, a member of the clergy, sometimes there is no fee for spiritual direction. Sometimes spiritual direction kind of like happens even a bit in the context of having a regular confessor. If you're fortunate enough to have a priest that you confess to, that you feel safe with, that you confess to, and who has insight and wisdom in guiding you along on the journey - so, it's not just like a quick confession - that can actually take the place of having a spiritual director for a season.

[00:27:35] Okay, so, often times for members of religious congregations as well, like for example the Jesuits in Singapore where I live, they don't charge any fee. You're welcome to make a donation or make a love offering to them, to the order if you wish, but it's not imposed, alright.

[00:27:50] Sometimes, there may be a nominal fee for the retreat centre where your spiritual direction session is held, okay, to contribute to the upkeep. And usually, it's like a recommended fee and it's very nominal like maybe where I am again, that's well, maybe like ranging between like thirty to - I don't know - usually around thirty dollars or thirty to forty dollars, maybe if it's a suggested one, right? So, that's the first kind of like type of spiritual directors.

[00:28:13] If finances really are an issue for you, then you may want to look for a member of, you know, a religious order, for example, or a priest, but that's not the only consideration, okay. So, look for like what I mentioned earlier, all that's very important, but in terms of budget, that's something you can bear in mind.

[00:28:31] Second type would be - now, we're moving on to lay spiritual directors. So, a spiritual director who is a lay person, not a member of religious congregation, not a priest. I'm going to split this into two types of lay spiritual directors. The first type they do spiritual direction as a ministry. Okay, which means this is not their job. It's not their full-time job. They often have day jobs or they are already retired.

[00:28:56] So, they're getting their income from somewhere else for example, or possibly they are salaried. This doesn't really happen in, I think where I am in Singapore. But I believe let's in some other countries there may be special directors who are salaried who are paid by let's say, retreat centre so then, in a sense, they, again, the main point is they have income coming from somewhere else, or they're not dependent on this as an income. They exercise spiritual direction as a ministry. Then, usually, there's also just a nominal fee or a suggested love offering. 

[00:29:27] Where I live in Singapore, I often see that fee between thirty dollars and fifty dollars, maybe, okay, for a session. Usually, yeah, between 30 to 50 dollars. And, again, it's a suggested love offering, right, to honour the time, the energy, and the expertise that they bring to this journey.

[00:29:48] The third kind, which is the second kind of lay spiritual directors, would be those for whom this is their full-time job. Okay, so, it's their profession, and they are doing this in, I could say, almost like a private practice kind of capacity. Meaning, they are not an employee of any institution, any organization that's giving them any kind of salary and they have to do this almost like it's like a - they are a business owner.

[00:30:14] Okay, usually for these kind of lay spiritual directors, they started off as the first kind of lay spiritual director I've mentioned. They usually have started off practicing spiritual direction as a ministry, right. They may have had day jobs before and all that kind of stuff. Some of them may have been studying for the priesthood or being in formation in a religious order and then discern that they were not called to the priesthood, for example, or they were not called to profess, you know, in a religious life. But they have discerned that they are called to do this, like their life's call or their personal vocation has to do with offering spiritual direction to people.

[00:30:53] So, now, as a lay person who has to worry about their own finances, nothing provided for them, they have to find a way to make ends meet, and provide spiritual direction as the main way for, you know, of them doing this. In this circumstance, usually, the fees then will be very different, right, from if you're going to a religious or a member of a religious order or you're going to someone who's just exercising this as a ministry because they have a day job or they're retired.

[00:31:18] You may be looking, you can expect to look at maybe more like professional coaching kind of fees, right? But bear in mind, at least where I am, this is also usually a lot rarer because they have to, in a sense, they would have to have to prove their mettle to be able to make it out on their own. And usually, when a lay spiritual director is someone who also makes this their livelihood, you can count on there being a particular niche that they may cater to, a particular way that they exercise the art of spiritual direction.

[00:31:51] So, there are two people that I can think of right now that I know, and if you are a subscriber to my newsletter, Begin Again, now and then, I actually share when these people give workshops or retreats, et cetera.

[00:32:02] Okay, so, there are three that I that I do usually share one is really in the Ignatian style. It's kind of very clearly in the Ignatian style. He offers silent retreats in the Ignatian styles spiritual direction in the Ignatian style. He even has been bringing people overseas on retreats and on, like, Caminos in Europe.

[00:32:21] Usually for the retreats, he invites a team of other spiritual directors to help with the retreats. Then there's another person who was eight years in training in seminary and his particular thing - so, he has discerned that he's not called to the priesthood. His particular thing is using, like, very creative arty ways to help people connect with the divine and with God, okay? So, we're talking about like dance or drawing or art or pottery or even food.

[00:32:51] I mean he has very creative kinds of workshops. That's when he does workshops and he also does one-on-one spiritual direction. So, it's a little different. Then a third one is my friend, my good friend Edwina whom I have had several podcast episodes with, right? So, she has had like over 20 odd years or 30 years’ experience. She has like a bachelor’s in theology and then she has a master’s in counselling and then she's also trained and certified in Ignatian Spiritual Direction for retreat giving and she continues to do her own learning in, let's say, somatic practices, you know.

[00:33:26] So, those who have gone to her and attended her events or done one-on-one sessions with her will know that it's a very different kind of spiritual direction. In fact, that's why she doesn't call it spiritual direction anymore because it's kind of like spiritual direction plus-plus. It's integrated and you have all these other dimensions as well supporting it. She calls it soul tending. But that's just kind of give you a sense of there are many things, there are many types out there, okay.

[00:33:51] if you're just starting out, you know, you don't have to worry so much, just go for like, you know, experience a regular kind of maybe Ignatian retreat or something. And if you find that there is a fit with the person who was assigned to you in retreat, I often suggest then start with that person. Try out this particular person for a few sessions and see whether you feel comfortable to continue journeying with that person, right. But if you have tried and you find that things are not really working or you are deeper in your journey. You're deeper in your journey and you're looking to try something more integrated or more creative, then you may want to consider looking at some of these lay spiritual directors who are really carving out very interesting unique niches that serve, you know, a particular place in the journey or a particular kind of person in the journey.

[00:34:46] And I want to say that these are also very good for those who really, If you are alienated from the church, for example and it's hard for you to be in explicitly religious spaces right now, then the example that I just gave about these lay spiritual directors who do their art, practice their art independently, you know, that's something that you can consider because usually, it's more open, more gentle, okay?

[00:35:15] Like you don't have to necessarily be in a very religious mindset to do the spiritual direction. So, that's just something to consider, alright? But budget is a factor for that, so, just for you to bear in mind. Okay, so that was the fourth consideration. 

[00:35:32] TAKING ACTION IN YOUR DISCERNEMTN PROCESS
The fifth consideration is, so, when you've kind of like found someone to maybe try, remember discernment requires action. Okay, you can't just discern something in your head. You can't just research on paper. You need to experience it. Okay, so, let's say you had an experience or you went for a retreat and then you had a good experience with the retreat director that was assigned to you then you maybe ask, "do you take individual spiritual directees? Can I try making this journey with you?" And if they're agreeable, usually I would say you can give yourselves maybe two to three sessions, individual sessions, may be spread, let's say, a month apart. Don't spread it out to too long, okay? Especially when you're testing. Maybe, you know space out once a month and give yourself two to three sessions and see whether it really confirms that you feel like this person is one, safe, that they're attuned to you.

[00:36:29] And it matches the need that you have in this season and it also kind of like matches the stage of where you are. You don't need to have a very scientific like, you know, exacerbated knowledge of the things that I'm talking to you about. I'm just articulating these things to maybe help you have some shape and form when you are praying about and discerning about a spiritual director. You usually will know in your body.

[00:36:55] Okay, when something works, like when I was setting out on my journey, when I was going through changing spiritual directors, no one laid these out for me, no one gave me like a list of five steps or five things to consider. Okay, you will know in your body, there's an inner wisdom in us, whether there's a right fit.

[00:37:12] And if you're really genuinely seeking God, trust me, He is always seeking you even more. He will lead you and guide you. So, the first thing is always, of course, to surrender this whole process to the Lord, right? Tell Him like, you know what? Help me. Send me to the right person. Or show me who's the right person in this season that can guide me, who can guide me, right? It is the Lord, ultimately, who is the spiritual director. And so, you can trust that He will bring you to the right person.

[00:37:40] So, once you have someone to try out, test and see if there's a good fit, pray and trust and listen and test, okay? 

[00:37:49] THE GRACE OF SYNCHRONICITY IN SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE
Look out for synchronicity. between where you are in your journey, like how the Lord has been leading you in your journey and the thing that this person brings, okay. This particular point may be easier for you to understand if you're not right at the beginning. I'd say you have been, and I know quite many of you, you're not right at the beginning. You've already maybe been journeying with spiritual directors for a while, for years even, and you would already have experienced different kinds of landscape, changing in landscape in your interior journey.

[00:38:22] What I mean about synchronicity with your interior journey would be - I'll share from my experience. So, my first spiritual director was a priest who was in the parish that I was working in. And after about two years with him, one, he was being posted out to a different position and he also informed me that he wouldn't be able to continue with me beyond these two years.

[00:38:47] Secondly, I had been feeling called at that time to make the spiritual exercises of Saint Ignatius. Okay, and in particular, I felt drawn to do this exercise not in the " Go away for 30 days in a silent retreat" form. That's a 20th annotation. Don't worry about these terms if they're not familiar to you, okay. But there's a form of this spiritual exercises, which is a very extended retreat that can be done in daily life, which means that I would need to see my retreat director about once a week, about once a week and have daily prayer exercises to go through. 

[00:39:27] And this would go on for maybe nine months, ten months. Okay, roughly about that. So, my spiritual director at that time wanted to affirm me that he felt that that feels like the right next step for me. And he also told me then it's settled then because whoever you find to direct you through the spiritual exercise exercises will be your next spiritual director because you'll be seeing this person, you know, every week for almost a year.

[00:39:52] And because I was working in the parish then, and I was really busy, I remember telling the Lord, one, I really wish that the next spiritual director would be a woman. I don't know, it's just a sense. And secondly, I said, if it could be someone who was located nearby, so that I could go and come back, you know, easily every week, maybe during lunch hour, for example, that would really be so helpful, right?

[00:40:19] And when I mentioned this to a religious sister who led me through prayer guiding. So, she's not a spiritual director, but she led me through prayer guiding. She told me, oh, that one of her order's sisters, who's very seasoned as a spiritual director and who was actually trained to offer the Ignatian exercises was going to be posted to the convent that was actually really close to the parish that I was working at.

[00:40:46] So, that's what I mean by synchronicity, right? You kind of like see the stars align. So, when this sister that she was referring to did move to this place, I initiated you know? Asked whether we could meet and with, you know, said I was looking for someone to guide me in the spiritual exercises. And I didn't hear from her for some time at first. She didn't respond immediately, but eventually she did. 

[00:41:08] And much later, after we got to know each other better, much better, and even became friends, she told me that initially she was hesitant on taking up this request from me because it's a very big commitment to guide someone through the Ignatian exercises over nine to ten months in daily life. And she never, she didn't know who I was. But interestingly enough, after I had sent in my email request, and she still hadn't responded. God sent two different people. One was her own, the sister that was in an order, who asked her if she had heard from me, from Ann, and kind of shared a little about me.

[00:41:46] Second was somebody who was already her spiritual directee, who was also in my parish, and who knows me because I'm in a parish. And that person, just on her own accord, didn't know that I was communicating with her sister, started talking to her about me. So, it gave this particular sister, sister Ros, that sense that, okay, maybe, I think she feels like maybe the Lord really does want her to at least have a conversation with me.

[00:42:09] So, like I said, the stars aligned, right? That's what I mean by synchronicity. Look out for synchronicity in your journey and who the Lord may be leading you to. 

[00:42:19] TRANSITIONING BETWEEN SPIRITUAL DIRECTORS: EMBRACING CHANGE
After I'd been with this spiritual director for about two years or so, that seems to be my pace. it's by no means any indication about how anyone else's journey can be like or ought to be like, okay?

[00:42:32] So, but for me it tends to be by about two years and then there's a big shift in the season or the stage of the journey that I'm in. So, I journeyed with Sister Ros through the spiritual exercises for about a year and then another year and a half with her as of my regular spiritual director. And the big change that was happening was more and more I felt this drawing to stillness and silence.

[00:42:54] I had a very busy and hectic life in parish life. I was still working full time in the parish, but there was this inner drawing I just needed. Anytime I had for prayer, I didn't want to talk at all. I didn't want to read anything at all. I just needed to be completely silent with the Lord. When I went for adoration in the chapel, you know, before the blessed sacrament, I just sat in silence. And whether it's 10 minutes, half an hour, or longer sometimes, it's just complete silence.

[00:43:22] And when the time came around for, I was doing like annual retreats at that time, I told my spiritual director that for my next retreat, I really felt like I didn't want to do an Ignatian retreat, because an Ignatian retreat, usually, there's a little bit more work, because it's spiritual exercises, right? The word is there, it's in the term, exercises. There are usually scriptures to pray and stuff, and also you need to see a director once a day. I told Sister Ros that I just really felt like I needed to go away and spend at least five days in silence. Like doing nothing, just with the Lord. Some place that has a lot of nature.

[00:43:59] And she actually affirmed me because she's been journeying with me and she could tell yes, that this is how the Lord was leading me. And she said yes go look for some place that you know? Go pray and look for some place like that and the Lord led me to a retreat centre a Carmelite retreat centre actually in Australia, one I'd never been to. And when I went there, because it's an optional thing for you to make an appointment with one of the Carmelite priests. And I did. 

[00:44:26] So, it was just, I would just meet him once in my stay, which was about six days long. And it was going to be on day three or day four that I would meet him, right? So, I love that because that means I will have a few days of just uninterrupted silence, you know. But on the very first day, in the library of the retreat centre, my eye was caught by a book called My Only Friend is Darkness, okay, it's by a New Zealander woman called Barbara Dent, and actually it was about John of the Cross.

[00:44:56] When I started reading the book, I felt like she was describing the experiences that I have had for the last year. And I realized that John of the Cross, Saint John of the Cross, is the, is in a sense, he's the right spiritual director for me at this point in my journey, right? And I've heard about him, about him before, but I never really read him.

[00:45:20] So, this book that was basically about John of the Cross, at least the first half of the book, spoke to me and guided me, helped me make sense of the journey that I'd been on and this drawing into silence, this drawing into stillness and nothingness. And that ushered me into a different phase of my journey.

[00:45:41] And I remember thinking, I wonder if my next spiritual director could be a Carmelite. Because now, you know, St. John of the Cross is speaking so deeply to me, you know? So, it was just kind of like a thought. And a few months after this retreat, at the time, my spiritual director, Sister Ros, had also already been hinting to me that maybe it's time for me to change a spiritual director, like we can continue on, but in a different capacity.

[00:46:04] And I was now praying for maybe a Carmelite spiritual director. I didn't know where to begin to look. I didn't know who to ask. Then there was one day in Lent, the following year, I happened to - I had to drop someone off at the Carmelite Parish in Singapore. He was going to meet a friend, but he was going to go for mass, and I had some time. So, I thought since I'm dropping him off, I would like to attend mass as well. This was on a weekday. And when I went to church, I saw that the light in the confessional was on. And you know, I thought, oh great, I can go for confession.

[00:46:40] I mean, it's Lent, right? So, I went in not seeing, I didn't read the label on the confessional. So, this is not my parish. I'm not familiar with who the priests are at the parish. I just went in and it was one of those old traditional confessionals where there's a screen. So, I can't see who I'm speaking to. I made my confession and the response of the confessor, it arrested me. It wasn't a usual kind of confession. I felt like the questions he asked were very piercing and very astute. And he also asked me, he said he had a question to ask me was, did I have a spiritual director?

[00:47:15] So, I just thought it's interesting, you know, that's not a usual question people ask in confession. So, I just completed the confession, but I felt after this, I'd like to have a conversation with this priest. It just, it felt like, you know, it just within the context of confession. He could open space up in me in a new way, in a contemplative way. And as I went to mass, I felt like in my heart, I felt the Lord was saying, this is going to be your next spiritual director. So, I wrote in I found out who he was and I wrote in and it turned out he felt that what we're going to, it wasn't so much of a spiritual director that I needed. After I gave him my journey story and all that, he felt that at that point, in his own words, it's like, it was more a companionship that I needed, not so much spiritual direction, but then I made a request that I would like to have a regular confessor because my last spiritual director for the last two years was a sister, right? Who was very good as a special director, but I would like to have a regular confessor. Could he be that person for me?

[00:48:18] So, that's how, for the next leg also, I think two plus almost three years, it was with this Carmelite priest. It was in the context of confession. But also, it was like confession plus-plus, in a sense. He knew I was looking for something more than just confession and he shared the wisdom of the Carmelite saints with me. And in that season of my journey, at the stage of the journey I was in, that was what I needed.

[00:48:44] So, again, that's an example of synchronicity between what was actually happening in my daily life in my journey with the Lord. And, you know, the things that God places in my path, even without me explicitly hunting and looking for it, okay? So, that's just a couple of examples of synchronicity, what I mean when you test and discern and watch out for these signs and when it fits. Things align, the stars will align, and that's usually a good indication that this is your spiritual director for this season, okay. Yeah, so, God makes that match.

[00:49:19] So, those are the five considerations that I've been circling through. 

[00:49:25] NAVIGATING SEASONS WITHOUT A SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR
And I just want to say, there are times though, and sometimes quite long seasons, when we can't find a human spiritual director that gives us that fit. All right, and that's also normal. Okay, that's also normal. And I want to say that that becomes more even more normal when you have been on the journey for a while longer. It may seem a little harder to find spiritual directors that can get you where you are. It's just the way it is.

[00:49:54] But I found even when you do have a good fit of a spiritual director that often times, when you will feel you need more guidance than just like that monthly session, okay? So, that's a time to remember God always provides. He provides beyond giving you a human spiritual director. So, whether or not you currently have a spiritual director or you haven't found one, you're in the midst of trying to find one, the Lord will always provide through other means as well, okay? So, there could be, I mean, there could be maybe mature spiritual friends that you have or spiritual companions. There could be books. There could be podcasts. There could be videos or retreats and conferences that you can attend that feed you. All these are ways that the Lord can guide you.

[00:50:45] For me, what I learned or what I've experienced is the Lord's guidance of us, the Holy Spirit's spiritual direction of us, in a sense, is seamless and it never ceases. The actual concrete means through which it happens can change and it happens in different ways. One of them, which is through having a, you know, the right fit of a human spiritual director. But God is never limited. Okay, so, I just want to encourage you, if you still can't find the right spiritual director, ask the Lord to open your eyes to recognize how He's guiding you in this season, okay? Because He is always there. He's always going to provide something.

[00:51:23] LEVERAGING BOOKS FOR SPIRITUAL DIRECTION AND GROWTH
Okay, so, now, to close off, and I just want to close off my sharing with sharing a few book titles. Okay, so, in my journey, books have played a huge role because they give me access to really good spiritual direction, in people who are either, you know, they're not alive anymore, or they live in an entirely different country. I wouldn't have access to them as a spiritual directee, but because they have written books, their wisdom, their experience can reach me, right?

[00:51:53] So, books have been a big part of I'll say my experience of spiritual direction and the books I'm about to share, just very select ones, are the ones that helped me understand a bit more about the interior journey, helped me to locate where I am in my journey, and therefore helped me to discern and choose the right spiritual director at the right stage of my journey, okay, I said at the specific stage of my journey.

[00:52:17] So, the first book I want to share is Father Thomas Green's The Friend of the Bridegroom. I mentioned this earlier on in, in this sharing, okay. This is a great book. There are two kinds of audiences for this book. One is people who are spiritual directors or looking to be a spiritual director, but secondly, it's also very helpful for people who want to embark on spiritual direction for themselves as in they want to look for a spiritual director and you're new to this and you don't know how to how to choose a spiritual director.

[00:52:48] So, for me, I came across this book as one of those synchronicities, okay - God incidences - that I stumbled upon this book very early on in my journey of spiritual direction and it was very helpful for me then. So, I recommend this book if you just want to have a sense of what are the things you should be looking out for and how to know if you are in good hands.

[00:53:13] Okay, so, one point that I want to share that was in this book that was so helpful for me was that, you know, Father Thomas Green says that St. John of the cross - so, Thomas Green, what was interesting about him, why I enjoy his books is he's a Jesuit priest. So, he's steeped in Ignatian spirituality, but he also loves and draws a lot from Carmelite spirituality.

[00:53:36] Okay, so in my tradition, Catholic tradition, there are all these different strands of richness and they are very different, okay? And they help in different ways. And I think depending on where you are, the stage or the phase or season of the journey, different things can help you. So, Ignatian spirituality, I really like it for its clarity and structure.

[00:53:55] And I think when I was beginning, that really helped me to have something things with steps, for example, to follow the steps, guide me, gives me a structure to encounter the Lord. More freely, I go beyond the steps, but having steps is helpful, right? Carmelite Spirituality is very - there are no steps. There is no structure because it's very contemplative and mystical, okay? And it's amazing the way that it is.

[00:54:21] The wisdom that the saints share there can be very helpful, but I think it can be a bit much and confusing if we don't yet have a foundation. Okay, so Father Thomas Green, who writes this book and other books he, he kind of like marries the two spirituality, okay? The clarity and the structure of Ignatian spirituality with the depth and he shares also the teachings of the Carmelite Saint about contemplative prayer. So, that's what I love about Thomas Green. And so, that's the first book I want to share written by him. This is specifically on spiritual direction.

[00:54:57] Thomas Green has also written several books, very well-known books about prayer, and they cater to people at different stages of prayer. So, for today, in this session, I'm just going to introduce the two books. They're introductory books, they're thin, they're really good. So, just because they're introductory doesn't mean they're not good. They're very profound, okay? And I think everybody should start with those. 

[00:55:18] The first book is that I want to talk about is this. Experiencing God. And in this book, it's a pretty thin book. He introduces the three stages of prayer. And I think from the three stages of prayer, he draws from Saint Teresa of Avila, I believe, in talking about kind of the three kinds of different stages, which is like stages of the interior journey.

[00:55:43] All right, and it's helpful. It's very helpful to realize that we go through different stages and one stage can feel very different from the other. It's very comforting, especially when things change. So, that's a great book to read if you're not familiar with the different stages of prayer. And the last book by Thomas Green that I'm going to be recommending today is this one, Opening to God. Okay, and so, he also talks a little bit about the three stages, the stages of prayer, and this gives you the lay of the land and how to begin a really good beginning that gives you a personal and intimate connection with the Lord, okay? 

[00:56:21] This is very helpful to usher us into the kind of relationship we hope to grow in spiritual direction. All right, so, opening to God a guide to prayer. The next book is also by another Jesuit priest. And I really, really liked him. I really, really like this book. It's called Armchair Mystic. Okay, and it's by Father Mark Thibodeau, also a Jesuit priest. He has written other books as well that's really good. 

[00:56:52] But today I just want to highlight this one because contemplative prayer is something that a lot of us are maybe kind of, I feel a bit Intimidated by? And this book is so accessible. Okay, this book is so accessible. His language is accessible. It's not academic. And he talks about four stages of prayer, right? Giving you a sense of like, how prayer can develop, the way that our relationship with another, with even a relative or like a grandparent can develop. So, he uses very down to earth analogies to help us understand. So, even in terms of contemplative prayer, which is ultimately the goal so-called of prayer, okay, even Father Thomas Green when he talks about the stages of prayer, it is to lead us the stages, is to deepen our ability to enter contemplation with the Lord.

[00:57:44] So, in a sense, the deepest form or deepest stage of prayer is contemplation where you're just being with the Lord, okay. You don't even need to speak. There's no communication in the sense of like verbal communication where the mind and the heart are at rest, okay. And there's also a dimension where this is a grace and a gift. But this is the longer journey that we are on and the reason why we seek spiritual direction. So, I also recommend you can check this book out on Amazon.

[00:58:10] You know, and if it feels like the right thing to read, please go ahead and read that. I found it very helpful all those books that I that I just shared with you. I found them helpful at the earlier stages of my journey. And by earlier stage, I want to re-emphasize, it's like the early stages of discipleship, okay? So, it's past the point, it's past the point where I know I want to follow the Lord no matter what. I wish to give my life to the Lord. And so, the relationship with the Lord is now something that I really desire to pursue and commit myself to.

[00:58:46] That's what I mean by beginning, by beginner, okay? And that's when spiritual direction also becomes, in a sense, really helpful and even essential for our journey. Yeah, okay. So, I mean, so that's my sharing. And just to quickly remind you of the five considerations that I had spoken about when we are looking for a spiritual director.

[00:59:13] First is the spiritual and emotional maturity as well as the knowledge and the skill of a spiritual director that we need to bear in mind. Secondly, is to know, ask yourself is what is it that you're looking for at this season of your spiritual journey and to be able to bring that into conversation when you are trying out, you know, potential spiritual director.

[00:59:36] The third consideration was to have a sense of what stage of the interior journey you are in and the needs of that stage. So, the books I just recommended, if you read them, you will have some kind of framework to locate yourself as to what stage you might be. Okay, what stage of prayer, what stage of the journey you might be and what you need.

[00:59:56] And the fourth consideration I mentioned was your budget and I shared about the different kinds of spiritual directors that are out there and how you know, the fee or the cost of working with them differ and why that differs. And the last point was to of course after praying and asking and doing your research or encountering somebody. Continue to try it out, test and discern if there is a good fit, okay, and trust your body and your instinct, your nervous system when you're discerning that fit.

[01:00:26] It has to be someone that you feel safe to be vulnerable with, safe to share all your doubts and questions with, and whom you trust will hold you and who has your wellbeing, your spiritual wellbeing really at heart. Whom you can trust will let you go when it's time that the fit is no longer there.

[01:00:44] I think that part is also really important, right. Somebody who loves you, but with open hands, who cares for you, but has emotional maturity, like I said earlier, to hold with open hands and be able to bless you to move on from them when it's time for you to seek out a different spiritual director. 

[01:01:01] So, I'll just end off here. I know this has been quite a dense sharing. when I was preparing for this Live, it pretty much felt like I was preparing for a workshop or a class, a lecture. I hope that you take your time to sift through what I have shared. And that these considerations will help you when you are choosing your next spiritual director.

[01:01:22] Okay, so the next time I go Live, I will be talking about things to consider when you are looking for a counsellor or a therapist. So, till the next time. Bye. 

[01:01:34] CONCLUSION
Thank you for listening to Becoming Me. The most important thing about making this journey is to keep taking steps in the right direction. No matter how small those steps might be, no matter where you might be in your life right now, it is always possible to begin. The world would be a poorer place without you becoming more fully alive.

If you like what you hear on this podcast, would like to receive a monthly written reflection from me as well as be updated on my latest content and offers, make sure you subscribe to my newsletter Begin Again. You can find the link to do that in the show notes. Until the next episode, happy becoming!